By Ronaldo

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- 2012.09.29

By AppleAndOrange

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- 2012.09.28

So then every single GSTL match will predictably go to the final game with a predicted win order of team A, team B, team A, team B, etc.. might as well just make it a best of 1 at that point.

You don't see any "snipes" because the casters, who hype up this idea of sniping, have no fucking idea what they're talking about. There is no "sniping", at least I've never seen it. As you said, nearly all of them turn out to be standard games. For "snipes" I expect very short, very precise 1-2 base all-ins. THAT'S what sniping is, at least to me, in which the player targets a very specific weakpoint of their opponent's play (for example, in Naniwa's case, complete lack of early game scouting)..

You don't need "sniping maps" to make this possible. People have bloody 6 pool'ed on 4 players maps.

By Ronaldo

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- 2012.09.28

Yes, but why not have lots of diffrent maps in the GSL also? Instead we get to see only diffrent variations of the same map that have 1x main base and 2x safe expansions.

Players taking these then turtling for 25min building units to reach 200/200 isnt fun. Much prefered old days of bunkers blocking ramps and dropping highground next to the natural on lost temple.

By AgitatedPsyche

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- 2012.09.28

at least make these type of maps for the gstl.

for example, i always laugh when i hear people talk about sniping because a good percentage of the time peopl just see a standard game (with the sniper losing).remember, snipers are people who practice long hours for one player, but most of the time the viewer sees no actual advantage for practicing for such a long period of time. please think about creating seperate maps specifically for sniping.in other words, have  another set of maps restricted to sniping, terran advantage, protoss adv., zerg advantage. im not asking for completely imbalanced maps, but maps that actually give the player who chooses it a real advantage.

now gom, this helps you by keeping sc2 1v1 the way you want it while beta testing a different style of tournament that could definately increase viewership if done correctly.besides this would fit gstl nicely because we expect actual team play and exciting games because it is supposed to involve entire teams facing each other in a dynamic way.

By FuckMeHard

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- 2012.09.28

Sorry to bump my own thread again, but GOD, did you guys see the games between Leenock/Hero/Squirtle?  Were those fun?  I literally dosed in front of my monitor trying to keep up with the games.  Terribly boring games that also make players look bad and sloppy.

Guess on what maps where those games were played?

- Cloud Kingdom
- Antiga Shipyard
- Ohana
- Entomed Valley

I am telling you, GOM.  You will lose viewership with games like these.   Don't listen to no-lifers who are incessantly screaming about MOAR BASES.  SC2 is NOT about MOAR BASES.  And many of us have jobs and all that.  Unlike some hard-core no-lifers, we have jobs and real life, and can't stomach boring stalemates that last 30+ minutes, EVERY FREAKING GAME.  

Please remove these turtle maps.  I think I am being constructive in saying this to you.

By FuckMeHard

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- 2012.09.26

By AppleAndOrange

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- 2012.09.25

By AgitatedPsyche

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- 2012.09.24

By FuckMeHard

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- 2012.09.24

1. Yes, my bad.  Entombed is Blizzard's creation.  Still, I've seen various ESV maps from other tournaments, and they all same suffer deficiencies.  One or the other.  Their recent maps are all turtly.  Pocket-y 3rd or even 4th bases, tight distances among them, small/few chokes to such bases, and very little air space, etc.  Just terrible turtle-encouraging designs through and through.  ESV maps are simply not good enough for GSL.

2. Well, Blizzard built the game with maps like Steppes of War, Delta Quadrant, Kulas Ravine, Lost Temple, etc.  Your statement is quite comical on recollection of this fact.

3. A lot of turtle moves are because that's the best move at that point in the game ON THESE TURTLE-PROMOTING MAPS.  That's the point I made in my original post.  Of course it makes sense to turtle on maps like Cloud Kingdom, Ohana, Antiga, etc.  You'd be donating your units to opponent's fortified defense if you dared to attack into it.  That's the precise problem I rased and why I was advocating different maps to begin with.

Daybreak is universally loved, and often does produce excellent games, so that should be the starting point.  I used to enjoy watching games on Dual Sight (esthetically pleasing as well), too.

I am sure the map makers know much better than me.  Things like the distance between base to base, natural to natural, openess of naturals, air space around bases, etc.  Talking about air space, current maps have almost no air space at all, so we rarely see air units.  Harrass/drops are almost done in throw-away fasions instead of tactical, calculated maneuver, which makes overall game play look sloppy for everyone involved.

P.S.  Can someone please upload Abyssal City on NA server?  I want to see/play the map myself but can't seem to find it.

By Ronaldo

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- 2012.09.21

I agree, almost all maps today have two easy to defend expansions. Right next to the main base, this creates a "defender advantage" so that many times the first one to attack gets owned by a counterstrike.

The results are that both players just camps, send out helions and zealots or whatnot do harass enemy workers. While massing up to 200/200 supply. 30min of nothing happening is just boring, i also skip forward ALOT on vods.

With the old maps there was tricks you could pull off, like using high ground above zerg base on the temples map.

By Namakaye

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- 2012.09.21

1. Entombed was made by Blizzard, not ESV

2. It's not just maps, it's the way Blizzard built the game

3. A lot of turtle moves are because thats the best move at that point in the game