YugiOh deserved a regame Started by thepoge 3,553 Views |
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By thepoge |
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2012.03.13 If you watch the game you can see there's clearly a problem with YugiOh's hardware. He just stops at about 8:50 game time. His money starts piling up, his rallied lings auto-attack in and die, and you can see that nothing new gets started on the production tab. He finally gets the pause at 10:12. That's about 80 in-game seconds where YugiOh had ZERO APM. No one could win after that.
As unfair as it would have been for Avenge to regame, because he did have a clear advantage when the hardware malfunctioned, I think the greater injustice was done to YugiOh. As a fan of e-sports, I would have preferred to see a fair regame where Avenge lost than to see a YugiOh's chance a Code S spot lost because of technical difficulties.
On a side note: I think that in the future when a regame is necessary in a Bo3 or Bo1 match, the GOM referee should pick a new map so there is less meta-game over repeating a highly practiced build order. Ideally that would put both players on equal footing with neither having practiced on that map and the better player will emerge. |
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By mrjpark |
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- 2012.03.29
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I'd also like to add, how about the injustice that would have been committed against Avenge if a regame was the decision? Why should he be punished for outplaying the crap out of YGO early and YGO not making sure his shit was working? If I remember right, he claimed to have been having hardware issues before the game started - why didn't he make sure it was 100% fixed, or if he wasn't confident that his shit was going to work, use a different keyboard and mouse? Because these guys actually play worse on other hardware. They usually play a custom game before they join to make sure everything's functioning. He was complaining about it before, but probably just joined because it was working just fine in the custom and he didn't want to delay the matches too much. It happens all the time, and it's why you see so many younger gamers have hardware issues. The older ones are more stubborn about things like that because they've already made those mistakes. And it wouldn't have been an injustice to Avenge because every pro gamer thinks he's the best person in that game (unless you're against like NesteA/Mvp/DRG/etc.) and that he can win any game. It is a necessary attitude. I'm sure if they restarted the games, Avenge would have had just as much confidence he could beat YuGiOh, especially after he crushed him in the beginning of the prior game. |
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By mrjpark |
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- 2012.03.29
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What are you talking about? The ref didn't give Avenge the win, the game was resumed, and Avenge proceeded to win. Moreover, how can you prove that a hardware malfunction even occurred? Koreans, especially the younger ones, have already proven that they aren't exactly 100% honorable in all situations.. whose to say that YGO didn't fake it in order to try to get a regame in a game he knew he was going to lose regardless? I love how "the Koreans" are the ones proving they're not honorable. Racist much? Really making yourself out to be a class act. On your earlier points, my thing about Avenge was that he cannon rushed twice, but he did it both times without even checking for a pool. He's crossing his fingers, hoping blind luck can give him an advantage. It did once, and lost him the game twice. This isn't the makings of a top tier player, Code S Zergs will crush him. Also, it was only one base Zerg for a very short time. Yes, he was behind. But he was droning the whole time so that when he managed to get his expos up, he would at least have the drones there to mine. Your argument also does not even deflect the OP's message. Yes, in 9 games out of 10, Avenge probably wins. But by not giving YuGiOh the regame, you're giving Avenge the benefit of the doubt; you're assuming that he would have made zero mistakes from there on out. You do know what assuming makes out of us. If we could tell who win/loses games by the openings, these tournaments wouldn't exist. We pay and watch the GSL because anything can happen. I don't want that "anything" taken away from me. |
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By AppleAndOrange |
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- 2012.03.15 I'd also like to add, how about the injustice that would have been committed against Avenge if a regame was the decision? Why should he be punished for outplaying the crap out of YGO early and YGO not making sure his shit was working? If I remember right, he claimed to have been having hardware issues before the game started - why didn't he make sure it was 100% fixed, or if he wasn't confident that his shit was going to work, use a different keyboard and mouse? |
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By AppleAndOrange |
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- 2012.03.15
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My original point (which has been lost to the whims of the forum) was that, in my opinion, the ref made a mistake in awarding Avenge the win rather than calling for a regame. I concede that YugiOh was far behind but at the moment his hardware malfunctioned he did not have a Protoss death ball inside his base, he had not lost all of his drones, and he had not have any of his tech buildings destroyed. The game, while in Avenge's favor, was very much in contention and for that reason it was unfair to YugiOh to take the loss. What are you talking about? The ref didn't give Avenge the win, the game was resumed, and Avenge proceeded to win. Moreover, how can you prove that a hardware malfunction even occurred? Koreans, especially the younger ones, have already proven that they aren't exactly 100% honorable in all situations.. whose to say that YGO didn't fake it in order to try to get a regame in a game he knew he was going to lose regardless? |
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By thepoge |
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- 2012.03.15 My original point (which has been lost to the whims of the forum) was that, in my opinion, the ref made a mistake in awarding Avenge the win rather than calling for a regame.
I concede that YugiOh was far behind but at the moment his hardware malfunctioned he did not have a Protoss death ball inside his base, he had not lost all of his drones, and he had not have any of his tech buildings destroyed. The game, while in Avenge's favor, was very much in contention and for that reason it was unfair to YugiOh to take the loss. |
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By AppleAndOrange |
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- 2012.03.15
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I have no comment on the status of the game (how far YGO was behind) - I did not watch that match carefully. But as for the hardware, I suppose you are not a grand master (just like me). So the way we use the hardware is definately different from the way the progamers use them. Heh, I did not feel any different whenever I go to my friends' house and play using their hardware, which is probably really different from mine. I did not even bother to go changing the mouse sensitivity most of the time. So our perception of the hardware is very different from theirs. What seems insignificant for us might make or break the game at the pro level, I would imagine. The thing is, from what I could tell, YGO's hardware completely stopped working.. like, nothing on the keyboard or mouse would respond at all, since he stopped playing for about 2 minutes or so. I get what you're saying about our perception of hardware vs. the progamers, but to stop for 2 minutes and do nothing? Seems fishy to me.. I feel like he stopped playing simply because he knew he was going to lose and tried his best to get a regame. If your hardware really stopped working completely, wouldn't your best shot be to leave the booth and get the game paused ASAP? The way I see it, that early in the game, if you stopped playing for 2 minutes, you are guaranteed to lose to someone who knows what tehy're doing. Maybe leaving the booth during the game is an automatic forfeit, but perhaps a hardware malfunction would have been a mitigating factor towards that. |
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By masktuxedo77 |
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- 2012.03.14
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Haha.. it was 2 base Protoss vs. 1 base Zerg for the longest time. No amount of "playing perfectly" short of 1 base all-in would have given YGO the victory. The fact that you don't understand just how massively far behind YGO was demonstrates your understanding of the game. YGO could stop the air play because it was only a few units, but the money spent on those Queens and Spores is money NOT spent on stopping the follow-up Gateway attack. So what if he was floating 1500 minerals? Do you think 10 Spines that would not have been finished by the time the attack hit would have helped? He also didn't have nearly enough larva (even if he did hit those injects) to make enough units to stop the attack. It was an impossible situation. As far as the cannon, blame the Zerg for not scouting it. As long as there is a probe in your base somewhere, there is always the potential for being cannoned. It's a really smart move by the Protoss too, even if it doesn't work, you're not that far behind, but if it does work, you get an inssane advantage. As far as the hardware.. honestly, I've NEVER seen ANYONE other than progamers complain about hardware problems. The only hardware problem I've ever had with a mouse or keyboard has been with a really shitty bluetooth Dell mouse. Other than that, every piece of hardware I've ever bought has never broken on me, ever. I think it's more likely that YGO stopped playing for 2 minutes and then requested a pause in the vain hope for a regame because he knew how badly he was getting owned. I have no comment on the status of the game (how far YGO was behind) - I did not watch that match carefully.
But as for the hardware, I suppose you are not a grand master (just like me). So the way we use the hardware is definately different from the way the progamers use them. Heh, I did not feel any different whenever I go to my friends' house and play using their hardware, which is probably really different from mine. I did not even bother to go changing the mouse sensitivity most of the time. So our perception of the hardware is very different from theirs. What seems insignificant for us might make or break the game at the pro level, I would imagine. |
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By AppleAndOrange |
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- 2012.03.14
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Not true, even after the loss against Avenge, YuGiOh was tied in the race for second. Had he won, we would have been ahead. The "deciding" factor the refs was how far behind he was in the beginning. But look at it like this, in those 80 seconds of doing absolutely nothing he could have: 1. Made more spores after scouting stargate. 2. Saved his queens and hit his injects. 3. Made spines. 4. Made units. It's easy to say he would have lost anyway, but what if he had played perfectly and come back and won it? We will never know because he couldn't do anything in the most crucial part of the game after the initial events. He wasn't out of the game. He was pretty damn far behind, but he was not out. What took him out of the game was losing all his lings because he couldn't control him (thus losing map control and vision) and not being able to put up any static defense. Furthermore, this game was absolutely crucial in determining the rankings of the group. YuGiOh definitely got shafted here. Avenge was rewarded with an insane handicap that he didn't need. And quite honestly, I don't have much sympathy for Avenge as it looks like he just cannons the natural blindly and hopes you don't see it (look at Avenge vs. Bboong BBoong). If he wants to get to Code S, I want him to earn it. Beat YuGiOh in a game where he's not sitting around wiht 0 APM while you kill all his queens and overlords. Haha.. it was 2 base Protoss vs. 1 base Zerg for the longest time. No amount of "playing perfectly" short of 1 base all-in would have given YGO the victory. The fact that you don't understand just how massively far behind YGO was demonstrates your understanding of the game. YGO could stop the air play because it was only a few units, but the money spent on those Queens and Spores is money NOT spent on stopping the follow-up Gateway attack. So what if he was floating 1500 minerals? Do you think 10 Spines that would not have been finished by the time the attack hit would have helped? He also didn't have nearly enough larva (even if he did hit those injects) to make enough units to stop the attack. It was an impossible situation. As far as the cannon, blame the Zerg for not scouting it. As long as there is a probe in your base somewhere, there is always the potential for being cannoned. It's a really smart move by the Protoss too, even if it doesn't work, you're not that far behind, but if it does work, you get an inssane advantage. As far as the hardware.. honestly, I've NEVER seen ANYONE other than progamers complain about hardware problems. The only hardware problem I've ever had with a mouse or keyboard has been with a really shitty bluetooth Dell mouse. Other than that, every piece of hardware I've ever bought has never broken on me, ever. I think it's more likely that YGO stopped playing for 2 minutes and then requested a pause in the vain hope for a regame because he knew how badly he was getting owned. |
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By mrjpark |
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- 2012.03.14
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He might have stopped the VR/Phoenix attack a little better, maybe shut it down completely.. but the fact is, he was so far behind due to canceling his natural and being denied the 3rd that the follow-up Gateway attack was going to kill him, no matter what. There was no way he would have had enough units out in time to stop it. Even if he did, he would still have been playing from a position of weakness, as all that money that went into stopping that attack would have been money not spent on drones.. meanwhile, Avenge is probing up and expanding behind the attack. Yugioh would have lost the game, no questions asked.. it would have taken multiple mistakes by Avenge for him to not win it. Furthermore, this was only one game. I didn't watch all the games, but didn't YuGiOh go 2-3? He was screwed, no matter what. Not true, even after the loss against Avenge, YuGiOh was tied in the race for second. Had he won, we would have been ahead. The "deciding" factor the refs was how far behind he was in the beginning. But look at it like this, in those 80 seconds of doing absolutely nothing he could have: 1. Made more spores after scouting stargate. 2. Saved his queens and hit his injects. 3. Made spines. 4. Made units. It's easy to say he would have lost anyway, but what if he had played perfectly and come back and won it? We will never know because he couldn't do anything in the most crucial part of the game after the initial events. He wasn't out of the game. He was pretty damn far behind, but he was not out. What took him out of the game was losing all his lings because he couldn't control him (thus losing map control and vision) and not being able to put up any static defense. Furthermore, this game was absolutely crucial in determining the rankings of the group. YuGiOh definitely got shafted here. Avenge was rewarded with an insane handicap that he didn't need. And quite honestly, I don't have much sympathy for Avenge as it looks like he just cannons the natural blindly and hopes you don't see it (look at Avenge vs. Bboong BBoong). If he wants to get to Code S, I want him to earn it. Beat YuGiOh in a game where he's not sitting around wiht 0 APM while you kill all his queens and overlords. |
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By AppleAndOrange |
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- 2012.03.14
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Diego shut up, watch the game moron, you will see that before the voidray and 2 phoenix hit would have had 2 extra queens out + spores, he would have had much more units out also as well as spines. On another note khaldor blew avenges advantage way out of proportion, just before yugioh had problems the supply was 51Yugioh - 54 avenge...How much of a lead is that? there was no suprise factor with the voidray and phoenix apart from the fact he couldn't make anything because of his hardware. So I will say it again shut up and don't ever comment again if your just going to blab mindless garbage like khaldor. He might have stopped the VR/Phoenix attack a little better, maybe shut it down completely.. but the fact is, he was so far behind due to canceling his natural and being denied the 3rd that the follow-up Gateway attack was going to kill him, no matter what. There was no way he would have had enough units out in time to stop it. Even if he did, he would still have been playing from a position of weakness, as all that money that went into stopping that attack would have been money not spent on drones.. meanwhile, Avenge is probing up and expanding behind the attack. Yugioh would have lost the game, no questions asked.. it would have taken multiple mistakes by Avenge for him to not win it. Furthermore, this was only one game. I didn't watch all the games, but didn't YuGiOh go 2-3? He was screwed, no matter what. |
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By manofonegrack |
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- 2012.03.13 AVENGE GOT THE THING STOLEN FROM HIM, THAT'S MORE IMPORTANT! |
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By ToberNZ |
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- 2012.03.13 Diego shut up, watch the game moron, you will see that before the voidray and 2 phoenix hit would have had 2 extra queens out + spores, he would have had much more units out also as well as spines.
On another note khaldor blew avenges advantage way out of proportion, just before yugioh had problems the supply was 51Yugioh - 54 avenge...How much of a lead is that? there was no suprise factor with the voidray and phoenix apart from the fact he couldn't make anything because of his hardware.
So I will say it again shut up and don't ever comment again if your just going to blab mindless garbage like khaldor. |
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By BDiego |
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- 2012.03.13 Yugioh doesn't deserve jack. He lost, get over it. |
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