Announcement regarding NaNiWa Started by GOM.Soo 77,830 Views
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By GOM.Soo |
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2011.12.15 Dear GOMTV.net users, Time really flies - we have already reached the Semifinals of the Blizzard Cup. We wish to conclude a great year of StarCraft II with the Blizzard Cup and hope everyone was able to enjoy some of the great matches we've had so far. There seems to be great confusion regarding an incident involving NaNiWa that took place on the second day of Blizzard Cup. We would like to clarify this matter and hereby announce our official stance towards the incident. 1. GSL's stance toward the NaNiWa incident Not only progamers, but professional athletes in every sports prove and showcase their skill through the game and by doing so entertain their fans. Since professional athletes do this for a living, competing in tournaments is a means to make money in order to sustain themselves. While money is an essential factor in a professional athlete’s life, it is the sincere competitive spirit that enables a mere athlete to become a professional athlete. This spirit entails the will to improve, work hard and try one's best no matter what. It also encompasses a mutual respect between those who share the title of professional athlete, which consequently leads to a certain code of professional conduct. It is this underlying competitive spirit, which goes beyond and is unrelated to any amount of prize money, of every professional athlete that touches and entertains many fans. We believe that the reason why so many people are such avid fans of baseball, soccer or e-sports has next to nothing to do with money. Korean e-sports fans generally share this understanding of the term 'professional athlete’ or in this case 'progamer', and might be less likely to tolerate a deviation from these core values compared to overseas communities. A lot of people share the opinion that NaNiWa has not broken any rules and should therefore not receive any punishment. It is true that NaNiWa has not taken actions that break any explicit rules, like for example using a cheat to gain an unfair advantage. NaNiWa has however purposefully not tried his best and shown this in a disrespectful manner. This was not only disappointing for his opponent NesTea and the GSL, but also for the many fans who had anticipated a great match. This behavior does not match with the definition of a progamer as laid out in the paragraph above. We do however not doubt the sincerity of NaNiWa's competitive spirit. NaNiWa has come the long way to Korea just to compete in the GSL after all. We know very well how hard it is and the determination it takes to come to a foreign country and take the challenge to compete. We want to make clear that NaNiWa will not be banned from the GSL for his actions. We will however revoke his candidacy for a Code S seed, which means that he will have to requalify for the GSL. 2. Doesn't that mean that the GSL is depriving NaNiWa of a Code S seed that he rightfully earned? It seems like a lot of people have been under the impression that NaNiWa has received a Code S seed for taking 2nd place at MLG Providence. The truth however is that NaNiWa has received the right to compete in the Blizzard Cup for his 2nd place achievement at MLG Providence. We have introduced our new format for the 2012 GSL Tour a while ago, which includes changes to the way international seeds are being given out. Since we have not explained these changes to the seeds in detail yet, this misunderstanding seems to have arisen. In 2012 the GSL will have 2 Code S sponsor seeds. These seeds will be determined by outstanding results in international tournaments. In 2011 the GSL schedule luckily matched very well with MLG's schedule. For this reason we were able to introduce a system that allowed high-placing players at MLG to compete in the following GSL season in a regular manner. In 2012 we will again do our best to provide a schedule that matches well with MLG and other international leagues. As the GSL format has changed and a season now lasts for significantly longer, it will this time however not be possible to perfectly match our schedule with MLG's. Apart from that we would also like to consider players of other remarkable tournaments and have therefore introduced this change to our international seeding system. NaNiWa has been considered as one of the players to receive a Code S seed for the 2012 GSL Season 1 as a part of the this new seeding system due to his recent impressive results. Other players under consideration were IdrA (MLG Orlando 4th, IEM Guangzhou) and Sen (Blizzcon Battle.net Invitational 3rd) among others. During this phase of consideration aforementioned incident happened, which led us to the decision to remove NaNiWa from the top of the list of considered players. This is not to be seen as a direct punishment resulting from the incident, the incident did however understandably have an influence on NaNiWa's position on the list of candidates. What we would like to ask from all of the GSL fans is to not simply see this incident as just a simple meaningless single game between NaNiWa and NesTea. The act of purposefully losing a match, whatever the underlying reasons may be, does always also have a psychological effect on the other players. By tolerating such behavior, purposefully losing might be deemed as a legitimate action and we might see more of such matches in the future, which is something that surely neither the fans nor the players would appreciate. Both Korean as well as international fans are important to us. We hope that no one gets the wrong picture and believes that NaNiWa is being treated disadvantageously because he is a foreigner. On the contrary, if a Korean had been involved in a similar incident, it is possible that a much harsher reaction would have followed. It is also very likely that the player's team would have taken firm action before the GSL could have even reacted to it. The GSL is a tournament that is open for fans and players from all over the world. We are lucky to live in the internet era, which allows us to easily connect and share our passions. At the same time, we have to live with the time difference and can experience an interesting mix but sometimes also clash of cultures. We would be very happy to be able to always satisfy everyone, but unfortunately that is not realistically possible. We would like everyone to know that we tried to make a fair decision to the best of our ability in this unfortunate situation. We promise that we will work hard to provide tournament formats that will lead players to do their best in every match and to create a GSL that will allow fans to enjoy and experience the competition as something that has more to it than just professionals trying to make a living. We wish NaNiWa all the best for his future endeavors as a progamer. Thank you. GOMTV.net |
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By millerfan |
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- 2012.01.30 GOM tangled up in a bunch of lies about some format rule, that should not be even relevant in first place. Meaningless match, where no rules were broken anyway. I wont mention mules, dances and such because it is a different situation but if you really find this disrespectfull you have issues yourselves you have to look into. you might as well dont force players play such games. This whole statement along with the course of action taken is nothing short of embarrassing. Looks like some 16 years old patriotic guy reacted about it without thinking twice. Oh yeah, and before I forget just to mention, I dont give a flying **** about naniwa one bit, although I am european. not fanboy at all, dont get me wrong here, it is your position on the issue that is very wrong GOM. |
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By ThusVoiD |
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- 2012.01.26 The match was meaningless, so how can Naniwa be blamed?
You should have come out and apologized for making meaningless matches, no? Instead you hide incompetence behind some big culture issue, while making out Naniwa never earned Code S to begin with. If you gave him Code A I wouldn't mind so much, but you gave him nothing, and took everything!
The irony is , aren't GOM and Korean professional athletes supposed to be above the rest and understand the culture differences, or at least be more forgiving towards the ignorant? |
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By fauxtoe |
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- 2011.12.31 I also really appreciate NaNiwa and Quantics responses. It looks like everyone involved has a solid head on their shoulders and this should work out fine in the end. I look forward to seeing more from NaNiwa in the future. He be solid yo. |
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By fauxtoe |
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- 2011.12.31 Most important point in here is that if he really wanted to throw the game, why not just forfeit. I think this really is a valid point from GOMs perspective. Why should he be allowed to waste our time by having all of us click on a VOD that is just total bs. |
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By WindChild |
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- 2011.12.27 isn't the same thing when the players quit the game before losing everything on the map. is that not playing his chance all the way through? isn't that disrespectful towards the game and the posibilities it offers? an athlete (who plays physics sports) is allowed to quit from a competition he is participating in. why is it different from that case? because you need the money more than they need it? it's that what it's all about? i wanted to see the match between them too, but i understand his position. and by the way, why did you canceled the matches in the up&down matches between players that had no chance to win a code s spot? does that mean that you are the ones who can make all the rules the way you want? isn't that unfair towards the fans of the players that were skipped the opportunity to play? you are very hypocrite. shame on you. |
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By FoxueRWE |
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- 2011.12.26 It disappoints me that he wasn't completely banned from every GSL from this point onwards so I never have to see him again. I was almost going to complain and be one of those people who play the "do what I want or I'm going to stop buying tickets" card, but for the opposite reason; he should have gotten a harsher penalty. Given that everyone here is butthurt though, I'm happy not doing that. Thanks GOM for standing by a good decision. |
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By Monsty |
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- 2011.12.26
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GOM, don't listen to these idiots. You made the right decision. What Nani did was disrespectful....end of story. To all of you who are attacking GOM for what they did, give the "match" a watch: http://www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 How can you argue that this was not a blatant disrespectful and even childish act? If you decide to stop supporting GOM over this - good riddance. You're just as childish. You still don't get it. GOM screwed up because they wanted to punish someone who broke no rules, then made up a story which is inconsistent with their stance with the MLG/GSL cooperation. They suddenly made a decision without talking to any parties and then expect people to be ok with it. Look at how long this thread is, it should be obvious GOM is in the wrong. Quantic requested to talk to GOM, but they refused. They aren't willing to go on the record because they know they will be thrashed. Childish or not, his spot is deserved, and with them giving automatic Code S spots to Idra and Sen is an obvious push they care about spectator money, not the players first. I'm still waiting for a real reply from GOM, for now remain ignorant. |
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By PowerFang |
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- 2011.12.25 I completely support the decision and think you did a great job.
Hopefully, we dont see this type of thing in the future. |
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By L0rdL0ki |
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- 2011.12.25 GOM, don't listen to these idiots. You made the right decision. What Nani did was disrespectful....end of story. To all of you who are attacking GOM for what they did, give the "match" a watch: http://www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130
How can you argue that this was not a blatant disrespectful and even childish act?
If you decide to stop supporting GOM over this - good riddance. You're just as childish. |
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By VladieShark |
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- 2011.12.24 Changing the rules based on this incident would be fine. Applying them retroactively is unfair. |
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By neprijatelj |
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- 2011.12.23 Im glad that whining toss got punished. He is a sore loser and he can be happy that he's not banned lifetime from the GSL. Greets from Europe, love u GSL! |
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By lazyboy153 |
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- 2011.12.23 Just to start off, I want to say that I'm not really a Naniwa fan. In fact, I'm a Nestea fan. And while it was a bit disappointing that we were not able to see a serious match between the two, that match shouldn't have even taken place.
To have two players fight each other for a match that was meaningless was extremely disrespectful towards Naniwa and Nestea. Maybe Nestea didn't feel insulted, maybe he wanted some revenge, but I felt it being disrespectful. You want to announce to the world, "hey guys, lets just watch these two losers who couldn't win a single game so far go at it! don't worry, these matches mean absolutely nothing, its just to mock them for sucking so much so far compared to others." These are both extremely skilled players who just had a bit of bad luck, but they still deserve the utmost respect.
GomTV, in my eyes, was in the wrong for reacting the way they did. As a company with various set rules for tournaments and programs, they should not make up punishments on the fly. Rules are rules. Why do we have laws in the world? So, when a problem comes up, people can refer to the laws to see who is correct and assign blame and punishments accordingly. GomTV needs to seriously write up some CONCRETE rules about professionalism the expectations from programers and which "rushes" are acceptable. No rules were broken. No punishment can be given. It it's not written, it doesnt count, I don't care what was "implied". Then, they try to take down posts and rules cover their tracks despite screenshots already all over the web about the rules. http://i.imgur.com/pCThj.png "Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status."
You can't lie and say that's wasn't there GomTV, sorry. You can't revoke something when no rules were broken, because that wasn't a rule to begin with.
All in all, was it disappointing that we weren't able to see that match? Of course. Was it disrespectful to probe rush? Sure. But, so is mule dropping in someone's face, building command centers in their base, or dancing yours units as you kill them. Do you think this is professional of players too GomTV? Why don't you punish all those players too?
I don't care if the biggest douchebag in the world plays the game and wins competitions. A competition tests a player's SKILL against other skillful players. It's a Starcraft competition, NOT a PERSONALITY competition. Until GomTV withdraws their treatment towards Naniwa and follows their "rules" strictly, they have lost my respect as well as the respect of many others. Sure, many koreans want Naniwa out, but foreigners are in tournaments too. So, you have to respect the opinion foreign community also. Otherwise, don't have foreigners in your tournaments, and then you can bend your own rules to however you want. People will feel you are being biased if actions outside the bounds of rules are taken.
Until they learn that almost every other foreign country follows their rules straight to the point, and not "bend them on a whim", E-sports will never become as respected of a sport as others. Don't let your emotions get in the way of written rules GomTV, its not worth it. Don't let emotions get in the way of professional business practices.
Get competition rules written up, what is expected of a participating player, and also all the penalties, concretely and in complete detail, of what happens if rules are broken. Starcraft competitions have been around for like 11 years, and you still haven't refined the competition rules? Post up those rules ASAP, and whenever there is an issue, follow them and nothing else. Don't make rules up on the fly. |
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By tzhao451 |
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- 2011.12.22
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You think its a meanlingless game? if you bought tickets to your favorite sports team, concert, etc. JUST to found out that they didn't want to play, would you be piss at the team or the host? so stfu litlle naniwa fanboy douchebag. GTFO, we wont miss you anyways. You leaving would also make this forum a better place. yes, that was a meaningless game. since you're either slow or you have a lot of sand in your vagina, naniwa threw that game away because both players were 0-3. if i brought tickets, i wouldn't be pissed because i knew the risk i was taking be4 i brought those tickets. it just so happens that gomtv charges by the season instead of by the set/game like regular sports do.
gomtv is just being a huge blowjob. |
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By tzhao451 |
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- 2011.12.22
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You think its a meanlingless game? if you bought tickets to your favorite sports team, concert, etc. JUST to found out that they didn't want to play, would you be piss at the team or the host? so stfu litlle naniwa fanboy douchebag. GTFO, we wont miss you anyways. You leaving would also make this forum a better place. yes, that was a meaningless game. since you're either slow or you have a lot of sand in your vagina, naniwa threw that game away because both players were 0-3. if i brought tickets, i wouldn't be pissed because i knew the risk i was taking be4 i brought those tickets. it just so happens that gomtv charges by the season instead of by the set/game like regular sports do.
gomtv is just being a huge blowjob. |
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By cabr6879 |
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- 2011.12.22 So what GOMTV.net is basically saying is that they are using a rule that doesn't exist to revoke an invitation to Code S that was never extended but not as punishment for unsportsmanlike conduct even though the "incident" influenced the decision?!
Then they're blabbering on about how GSL WILL BE structured starting in 2012 when all this took place in 2011?!
What a load of horsesh!it !!
GSL 2012 Season 1 started 19 December 2011!
And: who hell are GOMTV.net to decide what a progamer is? |
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By Antitese |
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- 2011.12.21 I don't have much to say when everything important was already said by people who fully understand how unprofessional Naniwa was. If there are people considering not buying tickets because GOM's decision about this unfortunate event, I would like to say that it had a very opposite effect to me. My trust on GOMTV just increased! |
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By doominc |
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- 2011.12.21 He deserved to be punished. What he did was almost as bad as what byun and coca did. Yea it was a match for no real purpose, but then again the match that coca threw didn't mean anything to him either. Extremely unprofessional to just throw a game so blatently with no regard for your fans/employers/opponent.
Imagine you are a sports fan, for your local MLB/NBA/NFL team or whatever sport, and you shelled out a couple hundred bucks to get tickets for your family to attend only to watch your home team literally just stand there and do nothing, and let the other team win uncontested. You would be pretty pissed and probably immediately demand a refund; those players probably would be punished as well.
If you want people to take esports seriously you have to act in a professional manner. Throwing games, despite being meaningless is unacceptable. If your a professional, have some fucking pride in what you do. Did you see the colts just throw their last game despite having ZERO wins up till this point? Fuck no, they tried and won a "meaningless" game because they are professionals; they wont just toss in the towel, bend over and let the opponent ram them up the ass.
Well done GOM, I for one thought you did the right thing. These whiners are just biased cause naniwa is a foreigner..... |
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By PyroCat |
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- 2011.12.21 I support gomtv's stance, and obviously Quantic and Naniwa do too. If Gom hadn't punished Naniwa fr his actions it would've set a bad precedent for the future. They're an organisation built to show us awesome games of SC2, not to show us progamers throw games they don't feel like playing. |
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By rLsGaming |
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- 2011.12.21 unbiasedly speaking..A 6-8pool has just as much of a chance of working as a probe rush. There is plenty of proof that probe rush can win games. A Starcraft pro is an artist of any creative play. An All In is an All in, You cant tell an artist to paint a picture and tell him he cant use blue as a color or that it must contain certain aspects. This should only affect the followers of the player and thier decesion of how they like/dislike a player... The rest is where to draw a line and set the standard for professional play.. (we wouldnt want to go visit a musuem to see drawings of stick figures and resembled that of a drawing that was made by a 6yr old...but that doesnt mean there isnt a muesuem for that type of artwork.) |
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By Monsty |
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- 2011.12.21 Lie harder GOM. I'm shocked you still haven't come out and admitted the real reason for your actions. |
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